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Talk:Voth
PLEASE NOTE: Memory Alpha is not a discussion board or forum. If you wish to discuss the episode(s) in question, we recommend the Subspace Comms Network. The comments below will be removed in 24 hours. -- Michael Warren 20:31, 31 Jul 2004 (CEST) A Voth on Braxton's Timeship? In Voy: Relativity. I do not have my DVDs to check.. * Nope, not a Voth.--Alan del Beccio 20:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC) "Isolated Continent" And yet, despite the disclaimer at the top of the page, the comments are still there, almost two years later...how tragic. Anyway, on to something relevant...one piece of information missing from this article is the information about where exactly the Voth evolved. Janeway (I believe) hypothesized in the episode that the Voth developed on Earth on an isolated continent somewhere, managing to survive for millennia after the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs struck. Seeing as how the only truly "isolated continent" on Earth is Antarctica, it would be reasonable to conjecture that it was there, during a time before continental drift moved it to its present location and when it thus had a much warmer climate, the Voth developed. There is, of course, no canonical evidence of that, but if it had been anywhere else surely the ruins of their civilization would have been discovered at some point. A note about the 'isolated continent" on which the Voth evolved should be added to this article, if not the conjecture that the continent is in fact Antarctica itself. --Antodav 20:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC) :Here's the actual dialogue from the episode: ::CHAKOTAY: If a saurian species had developed a language and technology, you'd think they would have left something behind. But, what if it evolved on an isolated continent? ::''GEGEN: A land mass that was destroyed. ::''CHAKOTAY: Earth has been devastated by countless natural disasters over the course of it's history. Asteroids, volcanoes, earthquakes. All evidence of your race could be at the bottom of the ocean or under kilometers of rock. :Taking this dialogue into account, adding the isolated continent as a theory where the Voth evolved would certainly be a good idea, but the speculation about Antarctica is a little too much...speculation in my opinion as the dialogue implies that that mysterious continent must have perished.''--Jörg 20:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC) ::A continent vanish? you mean like the lost city of Atlantis?--[[User:,monkey|'monkey2:']]''twice the monkey'' 20:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC) Actually, I've always assumed that the continent referred to is Zealandia. Maybe someday this will be confirmed in canon. But anyway, quoting Wikipedia: "Zealandia, also known as the New Zealand continent, is a nearly submerged continent that sank after breaking away from Australia 60-85 million years ago2 and from Antarctica between 130 and 85 million years ago. Most of it (93%) is now submerged under the Pacific Ocean." Bottom of the ocean indeed. 16:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC) distant origin canon? having just watched on Spike i made a quick search of Memory Alpha and was surprised to find that the Distant Origin Theory...theory...appears here as canon. understanding that we sometimes have to ignore real life science and accept some of the wacky ideas in Star Trek, i still don't think we should list the Voth alongside Humans as the native species of Earth. while Janeway and The Doctor seemed sure that the Voth evolved on Earth, nowhere beyond this did the episode explicitly state that dinosaurs left Earth for the Delta Quadrant. the episode focuses on the theory and the possibility of its validity, not the truth of what actually happened within the Star Trek universe. i think the language throughout Memory Alpha should reflect a less definitive stance on the theory. even with Chakotay's conviction, this still seems like a maybe to me. -- Deevolution 01:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC) : I agree. Although implied, it was not conclusively established that the Voth are from Earth.--Connor Cabal 13:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC) ::I just watched it as well and it seemed very clear that these Voth were from earth. I think you guys are letting the established scientific doctrine influence your judgment. It may be crazy to assume that all evidence of a space faring civilization could be buried, but how did they really get you to cooperate? Did they threaten your families?!?! :::The Distant Origin Theory IS canon. The truth or falsehood of the theory is not established, in canon or otherwise. But the existence of the theory is canon. Hey, Warp Theory is canon too, while not being remotely realworld. 21:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC) ::::It seems likely that this species evolved on Earth. If I was going to call something into question it would be their traveling to the Delta Quadrant by their own technology. In the Trek universe it would be just as likely that some other god-like species came along and transported them. Jaf 18:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)Jaf Where do we see them? In wich episode are they apearing?--Th3r3ap3r 17:33, December 12, 2011 (UTC) :Have you read the article? --31dot 17:37, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Physiology? Wait, at what point are we shown that the dart they use to shoot Chakotay is part of their bodies? Why would we assume that? NokiaTouchscreen (talk) 07:22, March 29, 2013 (UTC) :I believe it came right out of their hand. 31dot (talk) 10:25, March 29, 2013 (UTC) Removed I've removed the following notes: "It is unknown if anyone else has since pursued the research into this theory. ( )" "It is possible, though uncertain, that when Seven of Nine underwent random reversions through victims of Borg assimilation, that a love letter written by one of those victims is from and to members of the Voth species: 'How about once in the morning when I resuscitate and once at night before I go into torpor, and I'll think about you non-stop in between. Wait, I've got a better idea. Why don't you leave your circle and visit the colony? You'd love it here, so...' This may be further justified by an 'uncredited Voth' in Memory-Alpha's notes on the episode. ( )" These deletions were because the first note is what we don't know, which we don't include in our articles, and the second note was not only phrased in a very speculative style, it was also not formatted properly for inclusion in an in-universe section. --Defiant (talk) 23:30, October 29, 2016 (UTC) :I phrased second comment about the assimilated Voth; not the first comment [[User:Sheflinm|Sheflinm] (talk) 23:43, October 29, 2016 (UTC)] it speculatively because I wrote this as speculation before uncovering additional evidence that this is clearly intended to be a Voth declaration. I would reinsert it and change the language, but as you've alleged I made a stylistic error that I don't know how to correct, I would instead suggest you correct the speculative tone and the formatting and reinsert it. Otherwise it'd seem we'd have to delete the "Borg drone" subsection of "Unnamed Voth" and the "Unnamed Voth" citation in Infinite Regress as neither have been confirmed in canon. But it seems pretty clear that this letter was intended to be from a Voth given the additional evidence from that episode. I simply started writing before I saw the additional evidence. I personally feel that removing it was inappropriate, especially given our paucity of knowledge on the Voth. Sheflinm (talk) 23:42, October 29, 2016 (UTC) :And/or also remove the last statement of the Physiology section which is drawn from the same source. Sheflinm (talk) 23:57, October 29, 2016 (UTC) Okay. For future reference, here's what it stated, "The Voth apparently called sleeping and waking 'torpor' and 'resuscitation' respectively. ( ) (see last paragraph below)" For the other issues you brought up, I'm certainly no expert on how the Voth are depicted in "Infinite Regress"; as I said, I deleted these notes because they're speculative. If others can rewrite the info in a way that isn't speculative while also accurately representing what's established on-screen, great... but it won't be me. --Defiant (talk) 00:10, October 30, 2016 (UTC) :So you've reduced the quality of this wiki without actually having personal knowledge on the subject... I've edited this rarely; always based on tertiary- or quaternary-level observations having watched Voyager (et al.) over the course of 20 years. I'm not going to use memory-alpha anymore. Hopefully someone else is good enough at this to undo the damage you've done for no reason. And hopefully you read back and see that you've now left this page inconsistent with similar speculation (it's only speculation because we don't have the actual production notes) on the other pages I mentioned. I'm also not clear on why speculation (which occurs on many pages and in many forms) is improper especially if mentioned as such. Sheflinm (talk) 01:00, October 30, 2016 (UTC) So, in other words, I do precisely as you yourself wisely suggested, then you say I've somehow "reduced the quality of this wiki" with "damage I've done for no reason"?!! How about you make up your mind, rather than suggesting a course of action that you thereafter find fault with and criticize me for taking, even going so far as saying you won't be back on MA because of it?! Anyway, as for what the policies and guidelines say about speculation (see? There was a reason I removed the speculations!), you might true reading the second stanza of Memory Alpha:What Memory Alpha is not#What Memory Alpha articles are not. Goodbye! --Defiant (talk) 08:42, October 30, 2016 (UTC) :I think you misread the rules. Not shocking given your inattention to detail. "Memory Alpha articles are not the place for personal opinions. Don't write an entire article on a speculative subject – if we don't know, then leave it blank." I didn't write an entire article on these subjects. And I didn't offer a person opinion. I offered logical inference based on reasonable speculation (such as the presence of an unnamed actor playing a Voth in Infinite Regress, and the use of the term "Circle" in the referenced letter in a way that - as far as I can tell - can only reference the Circle-based social organization of Voth society manifest in Distant Origin). But no worries, I deleted that "personal speculation" in both the Voth and Unnamed Voth articles and referenced this discussion and your talk page. So now that we have logical consistency, I will end my involvement. Goodbye! Sheflinm (talk) 00:56, November 6, 2016 (UTC)